Okay but very often the community fixes a large amount of bugs with mods within a couple months or less.
Is he admitting Bethesda are stupid? I doubt it. I think he’s saying he doesn’t care because he knows modders will fix it.
Redpaint_30
Oh because the modders will fix it.
JohnnyOnslaught
The problem isn’t the lack of polish, it’s the lack of effort to improve. Hell, Bethesda is actively getting *worse*.
ezoe
Then release after the release. It’s 2024, you don’t need to press optical discs to distribute the game.
Tamazin_
But if there are known bugs in the engine, that modders fix with thesame fix for every game, why not fix the bugs yourself? Lazy bethesda
Auuki
For the record, basically every AAA game releases with quite a lot of known bugs. It’s about proper QA so that the major ones are found and fixed before the release. If they release a game with a ton of major bugs then either QA failed or (more likely) someone higher up pushed for the release just cause they act like a little kid and wants the game to be out NOW (so it makes money, no matter failing much more that it would have 3-6 months later).
Lack of depth in the game is a different story though.
Gaara34251
I get that, stock market is falling, inversors are panicking, sometimes publishing is the best option, but you can at least keep updating to fix those things you didnt have time to
tweda4
Well the good news for him is that now that Zenimax (and by extension Bethesda) are backed my Microsoft, they should be fine to spend more time during development on bug fixing.
Work through some of those 700 before release, y’know.
Bastard_of_Brunswick
If you release a game with bugs and don’t fix the bugs quickly, don’t expect people to pay for such a product.
Vv4nd
it’s not the bugs that are fucking up your games. At this points it’s mostly writing and (the lack of) proper leadership and vision.
Fantastic-Newspaper3
Yea, ‘cause bugs are the only issue Starfield has, huh?
TheStol
I totally agree. You should release it after fixing those 700 known bugs.
Winterspawn1
I’ve played Bethesda games since I was a little kid. Morrowind is still one of my favorite games of all times. They have very clearly been getting worse and worse over the years and quite frankly I’ve almost completely lost interest in their games at this point. The quality is just sub-par at this point and I know 100% sure they won’t work on their games and fix them they way CDProjekt did.
StopYourHope
Bethesda being allowed to work in the industry is a slap in the face to the talented and/or hard-working.
sometipsygnostalgic
so every other developer just miraculously has no bugs?
YodaFragget
“You have to release a product knowing it’s defective”
Imagine if other sellers sold products and had this mentality.
Have to sell a car knowing it’s defective Have to sell a defibrillator knowing it’s defective Have to sell a construction crane knowing it’s defective.
DeV4der
no you dont
ImprovizoR
If you have a list of 700 known bugs, then you should release your game WHEN YOU FIX THE KNOWN BUGS.
h3xist
I feel like the “lack of polish” isn’t from the bugs, hell I look forward to them when I play a Bethesda game, but from the fact that production focus has moved over to larger worlds with “more to do” versus the writing and in depth mechanics we use to have.
Granted I’m not a game dev so j could be completely wrong.
whiskeyjack1053
The fact that there are two ‘creations’ on the Starfield Creation club top 10 called Unofficial Starfield Patch and Starfield Community Patch says everything.
They’d rather create a storefront to sell mods than implement the fixes in those mods that the community creates to fix their game.
ACrask
All the big namers are finally taking off their sheep’s clothing whether he realizes it or not. Modders typically take care of bugs within a couple months or so, and the gamers typically don’t care much in such large scale games. “Polish” is such a piss poor excuse for the crap they’ve put out since Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Just accept you failed with Starfield. It’s a mediocre game that does nothing new. Move on and do better.
Rasturac88
Why bother right? People will still buy it, and community will eventually fix most of it, that is the message they are getting. Maybe if those things change, Bethesda approach would have to change too.
AugustBriar
Disrespectful.
PckMan
I don’t mind the bugs to be honest. I mind the fact that for 20 years they have not improved and developed their core game mechanics further and all their games are a mile wide and an inch deep. Other studios have managed to create better games while Bethesda is doing more of the same. I guess if it sells why change it.
Corren_64
My main issue with games like Skyrim is that they are wide, but shallow. You can’t really have builds, most quests are “fetch me some X” or “kill X in Y”. And fast travel on everything just made exploring feel..inefficient.
Compare that to games like Gothic 2: NotR. The world is very small by modern standards (and even back then). But it is PACKED. You often have multiple ways of achieving your goal. And, most importantly, most areas are visited a few times as enemies are “restocked” if you progress in the chapters.
Meanwhile, in Skyrim, you got to “Banditcamp 123”, kill everyone there, loot and that’s it. The marker on the map turned white and you never visit the place again. Same for most towns. You do all quests there once and then you never return. The world simply does not evolve along the story.
In Gothic 2? You start, beating up some animals while hearing rumors of an orcish invasion coming with everyone being anxious about it. You progress the game, advance in the chapters and more and more you get more orcs and other unholy enemies, closer to settlements.
Even Archolos, a full convesion mod for Gothic 2, does that with orc camps popping up everywhere at some point. And it makes sense. You fled from the war with the orcs. But the war is closing in and those first raiding parties are just the spearhead.
That’s what makes a world believeable. A world that reacts to you. And progresses even if you, the player, wouldn’t exist.
Zenry0ku
When your bugs are breaking literal save files(PS3 Skyrim owner here) when other games I owned never done so, there is an issue. Also, I downloaded the patch and still had issues getting it to play.
wingman626
Bethesda games “lacking polish” is one hell of an understatement
It’s like they don’t even try anymore and just let the modding community pick up the slack for them
TheSilentTitan
At what point is it considered poor work though? It’s wild that we all let Bethesda slide even though their games are brutally busted. Isn’t the proper way of development to ***not*** ship a busted game?
At what point do we stop letting Bethesda make a game they coded poorly?
sidspacewalker
Fucking Polish? That’s what they got out of this? Heads in the sand these guys…
because_iam_buttman
Bethesda is famous for having buggy games.
So it does not work because buggy game is no accident. It’s standard.
Them not fixing anything is also standard. It was hilarious to see in F76 bugs that the community fixed in F4.
That’s how little they care.
So they can’t use that defense. They do it on purpose.
glassgwaith
That’s easily fixed. They should just collaborate with CDProjektRed and they will have a lot of polish
Palanki96
I don’t think polish is the problem. I used to think that too but after spending years modding their games i just realized the base product is the flawed one
Every time i wanted to mod Skyrim or a Fallout game to be more games in the same genre i slowly realized i’m better off just playing the games i’m trying to copy
Sirnizz
Lmao
exonetjono
If a couple of modders who aren’t even compensated and not working on the game full time can push out a mod to fix your game in mere months then please, kindly STFU.
YesManSky
The problem is not Bethesda, the problem is Microsoft.
MrAce93
Bro it’s not even about the polish or bugs anymore, your games are still being developed at 2005
SargathusWA
Bugs can be fixed but starfield is sucked so hard . Same maps same building same enemy replacement is basically just laziness
Marvellover13
Might be a controversial take, 700 bugs are alright but the moment you have even a single game breaking bug (lost progress, corrupting files, crashes) the game shouldn’t have been released.
If the bugs are either purely visual or somehow make some unintended mechanic it’s alright, it makes the game unique
Zero22xx
And then never bother fixing any of them 200 re-releases later, even though things like the unofficial patch exist, giving them a handy reference of every bug or perceived bug that needs to be addressed, all in one place. It’s especially unforgivable when it comes to basic fucking typos that can be fixed in Creation Kit in 5 minutes (with 4 of those 5 minutes being the time it takes for the CK to load up completely).
40 Comments
> It just works.
Okay but very often the community fixes a large amount of bugs with mods within a couple months or less.
Is he admitting Bethesda are stupid? I doubt it. I think he’s saying he doesn’t care because he knows modders will fix it.
Oh because the modders will fix it.
The problem isn’t the lack of polish, it’s the lack of effort to improve. Hell, Bethesda is actively getting *worse*.
Then release after the release. It’s 2024, you don’t need to press optical discs to distribute the game.
But if there are known bugs in the engine, that modders fix with thesame fix for every game, why not fix the bugs yourself? Lazy bethesda
For the record, basically every AAA game releases with quite a lot of known bugs. It’s about proper QA so that the major ones are found and fixed before the release. If they release a game with a ton of major bugs then either QA failed or (more likely) someone higher up pushed for the release just cause they act like a little kid and wants the game to be out NOW (so it makes money, no matter failing much more that it would have 3-6 months later).
Lack of depth in the game is a different story though.
I get that, stock market is falling, inversors are panicking, sometimes publishing is the best option, but you can at least keep updating to fix those things you didnt have time to
Well the good news for him is that now that Zenimax (and by extension Bethesda) are backed my Microsoft, they should be fine to spend more time during development on bug fixing.
Work through some of those 700 before release, y’know.
If you release a game with bugs and don’t fix the bugs quickly, don’t expect people to pay for such a product.
it’s not the bugs that are fucking up your games. At this points it’s mostly writing and (the lack of) proper leadership and vision.
Yea, ‘cause bugs are the only issue Starfield has, huh?
I totally agree. You should release it after fixing those 700 known bugs.
I’ve played Bethesda games since I was a little kid. Morrowind is still one of my favorite games of all times. They have very clearly been getting worse and worse over the years and quite frankly I’ve almost completely lost interest in their games at this point. The quality is just sub-par at this point and I know 100% sure they won’t work on their games and fix them they way CDProjekt did.
Bethesda being allowed to work in the industry is a slap in the face to the talented and/or hard-working.
so every other developer just miraculously has no bugs?
“You have to release a product knowing it’s defective”
Imagine if other sellers sold products and had this mentality.
Have to sell a car knowing it’s defective
Have to sell a defibrillator knowing it’s defective
Have to sell a construction crane knowing it’s defective.
no you dont
If you have a list of 700 known bugs, then you should release your game WHEN YOU FIX THE KNOWN BUGS.
I feel like the “lack of polish” isn’t from the bugs, hell I look forward to them when I play a Bethesda game, but from the fact that production focus has moved over to larger worlds with “more to do” versus the writing and in depth mechanics we use to have.
Granted I’m not a game dev so j could be completely wrong.
The fact that there are two ‘creations’ on the Starfield Creation club top 10 called Unofficial Starfield Patch and Starfield Community Patch says everything.
They’d rather create a storefront to sell mods than implement the fixes in those mods that the community creates to fix their game.
All the big namers are finally taking off their sheep’s clothing whether he realizes it or not. Modders typically take care of bugs within a couple months or so, and the gamers typically don’t care much in such large scale games. “Polish” is such a piss poor excuse for the crap they’ve put out since Skyrim and Fallout 4.
Just accept you failed with Starfield. It’s a mediocre game that does nothing new. Move on and do better.
Why bother right?
People will still buy it, and community will eventually fix most of it,
that is the message they are getting.
Maybe if those things change, Bethesda approach would have to change too.
Disrespectful.
I don’t mind the bugs to be honest. I mind the fact that for 20 years they have not improved and developed their core game mechanics further and all their games are a mile wide and an inch deep. Other studios have managed to create better games while Bethesda is doing more of the same. I guess if it sells why change it.
My main issue with games like Skyrim is that they are wide, but shallow. You can’t really have builds, most quests are “fetch me some X” or “kill X in Y”. And fast travel on everything just made exploring feel..inefficient.
Compare that to games like Gothic 2: NotR. The world is very small by modern standards (and even back then). But it is PACKED. You often have multiple ways of achieving your goal. And, most importantly, most areas are visited a few times as enemies are “restocked” if you progress in the chapters.
Meanwhile, in Skyrim, you got to “Banditcamp 123”, kill everyone there, loot and that’s it. The marker on the map turned white and you never visit the place again. Same for most towns. You do all quests there once and then you never return. The world simply does not evolve along the story.
In Gothic 2? You start, beating up some animals while hearing rumors of an orcish invasion coming with everyone being anxious about it. You progress the game, advance in the chapters and more and more you get more orcs and other unholy enemies, closer to settlements.
Even Archolos, a full convesion mod for Gothic 2, does that with orc camps popping up everywhere at some point. And it makes sense. You fled from the war with the orcs. But the war is closing in and those first raiding parties are just the spearhead.
That’s what makes a world believeable. A world that reacts to you. And progresses even if you, the player, wouldn’t exist.
When your bugs are breaking literal save files(PS3 Skyrim owner here) when other games I owned never done so, there is an issue. Also, I downloaded the patch and still had issues getting it to play.
Bethesda games “lacking polish” is one hell of an understatement
It’s like they don’t even try anymore and just let the modding community pick up the slack for them
At what point is it considered poor work though? It’s wild that we all let Bethesda slide even though their games are brutally busted. Isn’t the proper way of development to ***not*** ship a busted game?
At what point do we stop letting Bethesda make a game they coded poorly?
Fucking Polish? That’s what they got out of this? Heads in the sand these guys…
Bethesda is famous for having buggy games.
So it does not work because buggy game is no accident. It’s standard.
Them not fixing anything is also standard. It was hilarious to see in F76 bugs that the community fixed in F4.
That’s how little they care.
So they can’t use that defense. They do it on purpose.
That’s easily fixed. They should just collaborate with CDProjektRed and they will have a lot of polish
I don’t think polish is the problem. I used to think that too but after spending years modding their games i just realized the base product is the flawed one
Every time i wanted to mod Skyrim or a Fallout game to be more games in the same genre i slowly realized i’m better off just playing the games i’m trying to copy
Lmao
If a couple of modders who aren’t even compensated and not working on the game full time can push out a mod to fix your game in mere months then please, kindly STFU.
The problem is not Bethesda, the problem is Microsoft.
Bro it’s not even about the polish or bugs anymore, your games are still being developed at 2005
Bugs can be fixed but starfield is sucked so hard . Same maps same building same enemy replacement is basically just laziness
Might be a controversial take, 700 bugs are alright but the moment you have even a single game breaking bug (lost progress, corrupting files, crashes) the game shouldn’t have been released.
If the bugs are either purely visual or somehow make some unintended mechanic it’s alright, it makes the game unique
And then never bother fixing any of them 200 re-releases later, even though things like the unofficial patch exist, giving them a handy reference of every bug or perceived bug that needs to be addressed, all in one place. It’s especially unforgivable when it comes to basic fucking typos that can be fixed in Creation Kit in 5 minutes (with 4 of those 5 minutes being the time it takes for the CK to load up completely).